Aside from JP2…….Best of luck Steven to the 3 of ye

Best of luck Stephen x

Stephen I wish all the best to you and your family x

Ah Simon c’mon that’s not what he said. I’m no pope supporter (any of them) but if Stephen and his wife find hope and solace in JPII then so be it. I know I wouldn’t want to be in their shoes. All the best Stephen and I wish you and your family the very best of outcomes.

Na. Totally agree with Simon. This guys been coming up with some rubbish lately on the journal. I even think you have robbed elements of this story from the chap who was talking about quitting smoking, on a previous article this morning. If Im wrong i am wrong. But you’re track record the last week, tells me Im not. I think your looking for green thumbs.

Is it not what he said? Nothing but sympathy for the mans wife but please don’t ask sensible people not to react to blind foolish faith.

best of luck for the future to you and your family …

Look up his previous comments folks. You’ll see.

Dont believe me Les? take a look at my blog http://www.thedomesticmonk.wordpress.com

Thank you everyone for your kind comments.

Stephen or whoever you are .you are getting out of hand now ! Im afraid your trolling is really going to get you into bother. Are there no depths you’ll stoop to play with the gullible on the journal ! Is there nothing sacred ?

Melanie , I’m sorry to say you’ve been suckered. Stephen is a very clever troll.

Im in agreement Tony.

I am not trolling and I speak the truth. Google me and you will find that i am a singersongwriter and have facebook page and soundcloud page etc. I am a real person who is not having you on Tony so relax. I am not a troll either. So far I have had to advertise my blog and music to prove to you both., if anything I will get a slap on the hand soon enough for spamming lol.

Why would someone write about a serious illness if its not true? If that’s the case well hang your head in shame . Must be very troubled

Michelle look up the story from this morning about national quit smoking day. There’s a gentleman called nazeed. His story is very similar to this fakes.

Did anyone even care to look at my blog in which I repeatedly for weeks have many posts about my wifes cancer which pre date that smoking article Les is talking about? anyway, I am leaving it at this, believe whatever you want to believe.

A truly disgusting comment simon.

k. …

Very sorry to hear about your wife’s cancer, I hope the treatment and the pregnancy are successful.
My wife has been through cancer very recently so I can relate in some way to the chaos that comes with it, her treatment was very difficult but the prognosis was positive and she has made a full recovery.
Stephen I am looking at the world from a very different perspective to you, I don’t share your beliefs I cannot sidestep the reality of the crimes of the church, I cannot cloud those crimes in a silence or a prayer, the truth must be acknowledged.
You mention how the image of the pope meeting his assassin is a powerful image, would that be similar to a child rape victim meeting say, Cardinal Sean Brady and forgiving the cardinal, is this the same thing…

Some nice songs there, I had a listen…great stuff.

Why bother praying to a dead man for healing when you can pray directly to the creator Jesus Christ who love us incomparably?

Hi Stephen, I’m on your side, read your blog, and in my experience compassion is very difficult to fake. Loved your reasoning on the names, I for one will continue to remember your family where it counts.
Great to see a few (minority) flying the flag here, but I must say some of the contributors, whose beliefs are not faith based, can be very reasonable as well. Some however have allowed the poison of bitterness to colour all of their comments.

Just had to download ‘Everyones Happy’ because it’s a brilliant song, thank you.
It wasn’t for sale on iTunes or I would have bought it. Strong Beatles influence and remind me of Ron Sexsmith which is a good thing. Love it a lot! Sweet guitar!

Stephen I’m not an unreasonable man , I do sympathise with your family and their troubles. I was convinced you were a troll and it appears I am wrong in that assertion . I care not what faith people have , for me it is irrelevant so long as they don’t harm anyone. But I have people close to me that have had their lives destroyed by brothers and nuns . I have known of others who have taken their lives rather than live with the pain of what happened to them as young defenceless children. These crimes were bad enough but the greater crime was the cover up , concealment and the deliberate perversion of the course of justice by the RCC hierarchy. That hierarchy could have saved thousands of children from a lifetime of torment but it didn’t . It abandoned those poor defenceless children , many not much older than your own. The crimes were so numerous and so widespread and so well documented. The current pope was also implicated in the cover up when he was a cardinal. How can you so publicly praise that man after what he has done? When you venerate these men you are trampling on the souls and spirits of abused children ? Often the power is not in what is said but unsaid ? I don’t interpret your message as praise for the pope but more like f&@k the child victims coz the popes a good one! That’s the impression you give to me despite what you say ! So you continue to support the church and I’ll support its victims.

And if i am proven to be wrong i concur.

God bless you Stephen . I hope all goes well with your family

Hi Antony 13500 genuine victims compensated by institutional redress board in ireland. Who’s exaggerating the numbers now ! http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2010/10/19/00085.asp

30000 children sold by Spanish nuns !
10000 women incarcerated in Magedelene slave labour camps.

That doesn’t include deceased victims or those who haven’t come forward. True figures could be multiples of the one I quoted !

Best of luck Stephen. Yes meeting the shooter spoke volumes. Can you imagine any politician doing that? The shooter later converted to Catholicism.

“Prayers to him never go unanswered ” You must be very special Stephen. Unfortunately thousands of catholic children weren’t as lucky as you to have their prayers answered. Maybe abuse victims should have prayed to the pope instead of God to keep them safe from clerical rapists and the resulting life of psychological torture. But of course during his time in office he watched on as poor defenceless vulnerable and innocent catholic children suffered ! He never came to their aid while living and he’ll never come to their aid now! And those children were no less catholic or religious than you Stephen ! Sorry for your family’s troubles !

Of course Anthony all the victims were young defenceless catholic children .

It’s very sad to see so many fixated on the misdeeds of individuals within the church, with zero recognition of the oceans of self sacrifice and service given by many more in the church to mankind. The way the church bashers use their blinkers to ignore the simple fact that the world is full of abuse and extremism and the message the church gives is overall a huge moderating agent in the world.
All the church is interested in is Christ the saviour and what it believes this is for individuals, take it or leave it!
Where else will a defence for the unborn come from, who else will defend marriage, the dignity of humanity, etc. Many non religious can also deduce by reason these truths, but the church is a champion.
This thread is a good example of what a lack of charity leads to, when Stephen posted a very personal challenge the response of so many is to peddle their hatred and venom. It is clear charity is difficult to practice without the Church.

The dignity of humanity? Is servers by child rapists and their appeasers, explain how that works for you Paddy. This particular article was about JPII he concealed child rape and actively protected the rapists. These are crimes to me, are they crimes to you Paddy?
Just that fact alone is insurmountable to me, add to that some people believe this man is a saint, now that says a lot to me about his supporters, are you a supporter of a child rapist enabler?
I’m being honest here and entirely straight and not at all selective, this is simple, but it is enormous.

@ William Ruane
You claim you are being honest, and that is probably true, I can’t blame you if you believe the conspiracy theories, produced to discredit the churches message.
Consider yourself before JP II, and make your accusations, can you imagine him saying your right, but don’t tell anyone. If you believe this you have never read a persons soul in their eyes. Unfortunately your deliberate, or unintended, blindness, hurts your ability to discern truth. So your life is spent, like mine, practicing for the next life, but both of us are capable of changing our beliefs at any time. I’m happy to see the church overall as a source of great good. I trust in Justice having its way with those who abused, both here and in the future, and I pray and act as best I can for the victims.

@Paddy The most charitable People i ever met were not clerics they were lay people. I’ve known thousands of decent catholic people in my life who believed in the church like I once did. But they like I didn’t know any better about the upper echelon and their criminal activities.of course they were our thought police back then. You try to make out its all conspiracy. Well it’s not . The crimes have been documented by government and church records. Members of the hierarchy were forced to admit to covering up because the evidence was so overwhelming . They were all caught with their trousers down. Pardon the pun .Unfortunately it’s blind , obedient non questioning people of faith like you that helped contribute to and perpetuated this criminal activity . This is not about attacking god or a belief in Christ it’s about justice and exposing the wrong doers at the top who hide behind religion and make victims of us all ! Including you. If the Vatican was destroyed tomorrow and all the hierarchy were sacked . That wouldn’t destroy people’s belief in god . But it would go some way maybe to stop people elevating corrupt men who covered up the most heinous crimes against innocent defenceless catholic children to the status of god .this is what you and Stephen appear to do in your posts.

Paddy, so these raped children are a conspiracy theory, oh dear…is that all you can say to defend such crimes.
Reading a persons soul through their eyes !? What does that even mean, you’ve seen JPII’s soul though his eyes and that’s enough for you…these raped children are an illusion.

Judging from your photo you are probably around my age give or take, I’m 52, and one thing I’ve learned about life so far is to question everything and you will find the truth, and I’m afraid the truth does not belong with the Church…that is mumbo jumbo Paddy the whole construct is just that a construct…to control people…like you, obedient, gullible and blind people.
I worry for you.

@ Tony Hegarty
I never implied that charity was limited to religious. What I would say is charity is encouraged by our faith.
Those who committed crimes should be prosecuted, as with all humans. Your idea of taught police is a laugh, if you have a child will you teach it to talk, to swim, to be hygienic, to reason. Are you therefore abusive? Why should respect for a saviour be excluded from our learning, why should a parent and the church not promote virtue? After all we all have the right to reject these things, if we wish to as we mature.
The conspiracy I refer to is the desire to damage the church at all costs. As a church member I am all too aware of the abuses that took place, but I always acknowledge that, whereas your side of the debate, in its extreme form, get a lump in your throat anytime you have to admit that there are great and holy men in the church. It suits your purpose to smear all, with the sins of a few. Before you tout the statistics again, the level of abuse within the church, reflects the level of abuse within society as a whole.
I certainly don’t, and I’m sure Stephen is the same, elevate anyone to the status of god. I do believe the pope is gods representative on earth, but that is just a catholic thing.

Paddy finally we agree “Those who committed crimes should be prosecuted” does that apply to the pope too ? You talk about all these great works about great holy people . I have no doubt there are many good Roman Catholics who do great works for their communities. Equally there are many people of other religions and non religious who do likewise . Catholics built the church and catholics will tear it down ! The church’s victims and enemies are more within than without . It’s falling apart inside. I doubt your comparisons of the level of offences against children outside of the church that ‘s RCC propaganda.
On a final note heres why priests have turned away from the church . read their testimonies http://www.leavingthepriesthood.com/

All the best Stephen xxxxx

@ William Ruane
I appreciate your worry for me William, even if it is unfounded.
The eyes are the window to the soul, is an old expression. What I meant in my use of the expression was that it was clear from JP II that he would never wish harm on anyone, and your touting of the opposite is not only false, but delusional.
As for your ability to find truth, or indeed to recognise it if it was in front of you, we’ll I’m not to sure. I’m a little older than you, and even though I have found another Truth to the one you hold, I’m still discovering new aspects of that Truth. But I wish you well with your search.
I’m very happy with the obedient label, as for gullible, well time and eternity shall tell. How can you tell that I am the controlled one, and not you. Have you any yardstick with which to measure truth, other than a belief that what you deduce is right. This is relativism at its best, no absolute truths, and my deductions are what is truth. I am god.

The last bit “I am God” . Really sorry I engaged you , go back to the meds or maybe you are just a dyslexic Jesuit.

@Paddy JPII may not have intended to hurt anyone but he did indirectly through inaction. I will never say that the church is wholly corrupt or wrong, just some parts, mainly the upper echelons of the curia. I will always acknowledge that there are fantastic people in the church and I personally know good priests and amazing nuns praying for everyone every day.

But the church has hurt people and JPII has hurt people directly and indirectly. I was hurt to think he considered me intrinsically disordered and evil just for being who I am. I imagine all gay catholics were hurt by it. I imagine a lot of catholics turned away from the church because of such hurts.

So trying to gloss over the faults of the papacy is a disservice to all that have been hurt by its actions or inactions. That is why many commenters are so vociferous in their statements on this.

I just had a look at your blog Stephen, I hope you find comfort in your religion at this hard time.
I was also shocked to read your anti gay speech entitled ” In Gay we trust etc…”
Maybe you need to look at the tactics that Youth Defense deploy – before you before you accuse gay people of frightening little children.I would be much more frightened of people hurling abuse and brandishing placards with photos of butchered foetuses in buckets.

@ Tony Hegarty
I agree with the start of your comment, to the point where you say Catholics build the church. This is only partially true, to a catholic, it is Christ who builds the church, we are merely cooperators.
Again the church is not falling apart. Thirty years ago there were 64k seminarians, today there are over 107K. The church is growing.
Everything you disagree with becomes neatly filed away under church propaganda, read what the social scientists are saying, I can’t remember the precise statistic but something like 80% of abusers are known to the abused person, in other words, within the family.
Priests turn away from the church for one of two reasons, 1) they should never have been ordained, or 2) they have succumbed to their sinful nature and accepted the lies of secularism and relativism. There would also have been a very small group who went into priesthood to deliberately be in a position of respect and trust, so that they could more easily exercise their vices.
But the vast majority of catholic laity and clergy, are properly motivated, and your unending diatribe is an insult to their commitment and charity to all of mankind. Shame on you.

@ Tony Hegarty
Context is everything Tony, it was you I was saying has succumbed to relativistic thinking, and its natural conclusion; in other words you consider yourself god, capable of judgement over pope, church, and any other misfortune who will disagree with you.

@ Conor Buggy
A good post Conor, I would like to address just one aspect of it. Firstly there are many gays who are a valued part of the church. The church does not consider YOU to be “intrinsically disordered and evil”, but they do consider the homosexual act itself to be so.
I know many are hurt by the church. This group again are in two camps, those who were wronged by individuals associated with the church, and those who were hurt by what the church has to teach as the minder of Christs teachings. In this second group, the offence is by the person on themselves, as the church can’t change given scripture and tradition.

Paddy you agree with the start of my comment . So you agree the pope should be prosecuted ! What a result ! Now how can we make that happen when ” he’s supposed to be God’s representative on earth ?

Have you looked at the site which was created by ex RCC priests. Have you actually read their testimonies . It’s not as simplistic as you make it out to be. What makes you an authority on the church ? Are you a cleric ?

@ Tony Hegarty
If the pope committed a crime, I’d expect him to be prosecuted. It happened a lot in the early church. But you Tony are not the judge, jury, and hangman. Some random conclusion of yours is insufficient for a criminal case.
A bishop in America recently said he will die in his own bed, but one of his successors in likely to die in prison. This is because of the hatred many have for the church. As the church and society go their separate ways, it is foreseeable that Christians will again be thrown to the lions. P.S. I’m not a cleric.

Stephen if you read this, i just want to say my sincere sympathies to you and my thoughts are with your wife. Hopefully with the help of god and the late pope john paul II she will get better and im sure she will as your faith is so strong and a help in times of great stress and worry. Afterall if we dont have faith in times like this what have we….Nothing

@ Paddy, you are deluded in the extreme and essentially you are desperately grasping at straws trying to shield your religious super heros. This is plain to see and it is very sad.

The idea that non believers are damaging the church is actually hilarious. Society has had a close look at the church and from a reasoned point of law found people within the church to have committed terrible crimes against innocent people. Two of those people were JPII and Ratzinger, there is real evidence to prove this and yet you refuse to accept that truth. You see neither you nor I own this truth, the truth is just there and can be ignored and concealed but it is still there. The damage to the church has been done from within, from the very top all the way to the bottom.
The rot is spreading, outwards from within, in the coming months and years we will hear yet more awful crimes committed by these ‘holy’ people and you will look the other way because for you reality is a safe unchanging sanctuary you found necessary in your life, like a buoyancy aid in a swimming pool and to question the super heros is to trust yourself and let go the buoyancy aid. By all means keep a tight grasp of that and you might not drown but it would be a stretch to describe it as swimming.

@ Tony Hegarty
It true Tony, this thread is gone past its “use by” date. Everything appears to be a church lie if you disagree with it.
I would like to know what has happened to the principle of innocent until proven guilty.
@ William Ruane
Too much simile.
If there is real evidence, they have themselves abused, or covered up abuse, it has not been made public. Just rantings of those who dislike what the church teaches.

Ratzinger seeks immunity protection from Italian President

http://www.stuartwilde.com/2013/02/popeseeks-immunity-protection-from-italian-president/

Hi William have you looked at Stuart Wildes profile on the web ? I think he may be taking advantage of this story to promote himself. I would be reluctant to use him as a reference .

You could well be right about Wildes motives, this information is available from several different sources. Of course time will tell.

Agreed see you in later posts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEkJJidVjGU&sns=em

Hi Will not sure you got this link http://www.catholicarrogance.org/Catholic/RC_scandal-2.html but it may prove useful . This news story has more or less expired so no new readers . I will be posting in future news stories and will try to contribute , enlighten and challenge readers about what they know about the RCC . It’s useful to give people these links . Knowledge is power ! Take care enjoy the rest of the weekend

There’s no power in your propaganda paddy . It’s too late the world sees through your tissue of lies. You support the oppressor I support the oppressed and even you , because you too are an unwitting victim of those you defend, Your efforts are futile but I forgive you for you know not what you do . May your god bless you and may you someday sees the light .

@ Tony Hegarty
One mans belief is another mans propaganda. The world has always been at odds with the church. The church you now follow is at least 250 years old, with the dawn of the so called enlightenment. You may consider yourself modern, but what you traffic is well jaded.
The demise of the church is perpetually predicted, but of course this flies in the face of Christs promise to the apostles, and ignores the sustained growth.
I don’t know about your interaction with the oppressed, but when and if you get there, I’m sure you will meet the church, supporting and caring for them. These are the same men and women who have committed their lives to the poor at great personal sacrifice, only to be pilloried by the armchair intellectuals of the blogging era.
May my God, and yours, bless you too, and may we both see the light.

Sorry to disappoint Paddy but my allegiance is to humanity not to any individual creed or race. I abhor hypocrisy , oppression and injustice at every level . I have family members who were raped and abused by clergy . I have first hand experience of the church’s denial . And at no time did any religious order offer any assistance or understanding . Not once did they challenge the hierarchy for the crimes committed all they wanted was to hush it up and make it go away and deny it ever happened. So until justice is served I will never stop campaigning for the truth .

@ Tony Hegarty
Tomy I hope that the perpetrators of the assault on your family, have been dealt with as appropriate. They deserve the severest of punishments for their assault on your family, and for their betrayal of their vocation. Such men do harm to their victims and to everyone. But the church, and in my opinion the pope, does not deserve to be tarred with the same brush. If that is the source of your personal dislike, I can only point out that what these criminals did, has nothing to do with the message of Christ, or his church.

When my children were small each of them invariably got to a point where they asked me about God, as they’d heard other kids talking about god and other god stuff they’d heard, so they were curious.
I explained God like this. I told them to imagine all the people in the world being inside a huge big tent, all the people, down through history, and they would all live their lives inside the tent. And the tent zip was closed always so nobody ever left the tent. Everybody just lived their lives inside the tent, mostly quite happily.
Then one day somebody pondered what might be outside the tent, would it be different from inside, some others were also beginning to wonder about the same thing. So somebody imagined what might be outside, they made up a story and added little bits to the story to make it interesting. Some people liked the story, and after a while some people began to think the story might even be true, and the person who made up the story felt pretty good about themselves, people thought they were special, that he had special powers, then he put rules in his stories, rules for the people who liked the stories.
Other people made up their own stories about what was outside the tent and those people started to get believers too, even though their stories were very alike. Sometimes the different groups had big arguments and sometimes even wars. And lots of people got hurt or even died. Sometimes millions of people died just because they couldn’t agree about their stories. The arguments were pretty silly because they were all just about the stories, and the stories were pretty much the same because the people had a very limited understanding of the world way back then.
And even now the wars and the arguments still continue, thousands of years later about the same stories.
And still nobody knows what is outside the tent because nobody has opened the zip. Nobody ever went outside. So nobody knows what’s there, and maybe nobody ever will.

@ William Ruane
That’s a very clever story William, if you came up with it yourself, well done. Did any of them ask, who made the tent? I heard part of the story where the tent maker visited, but some of the people were so upset with what He told them about the tent inside and outside, that they killed him.

Very charasmatic indeed

He WAS remarkable in that he did as little as possible to confront child abuse and child rape by his own employees during his time as pope.
Just because he had a placid, charismatic personality and a nice smile doesn’t absolve him of his greatest sin – “looking the other way” when it came to confronting widespread paedophilia in his organisation.
..and please, please don’t tell me that he didn’t know anything about it!

Best at what dressing in a frock and believing in the big man in the sky, give it up redundant old farts the lot of them

I hate cabbage……..

Yes but he meant a different type of love!

This pope knowingly shielded child rapists from prosecution. How can a man be described as good when he does such a thing. The evidence is availabe to read, Rev. John Geoghan, was forced into retirement (not jail) after seventeen years and nearly 200 victims, Cardinal Law shielded countless rapists of children and JPII was fully aware of all this and yet brought him to Rome and never sought justice for the victims, JPII protected the evil and disposed of the abused…sounds very christian to me. He was worse than Ratzinger considerably. If you find that hard to accept the evidence is there to those who want the truth.

@ simon Disgusting and shameful comment. Your ‘humour’ is disrespectful to not only the pope but victims of abuse.

Simon…. Tout your bitter comments elsewhere and do us all a favour

You nasty ignoramus.

For all the criticism that Ratzinger has had, JPII was worse.
He has a charisma that Ratzinger doesn’t have and it’s unfortunate that people don’t look beyond that really.

A loved pope is much more personality contest than anything else. That’s the truth of it – if you actually look up the stances they took on things then Ratzinger is not ahead – he’s just less behind than JPII

Oh and @Alan – you can say that but if you actually care to look at the facts before red thumbing and commenting you’ll find that while Simon’s comment is crude, it reflects a LOT of truth.

Your presumptuous comment regarding me is utter nonsense. Thanks for the lols

Simon’s commet above trivialising the abuses reflected nothing more then a appalling sense of humour. Also it was not just ‘crude’ it was extremely distasteful and insensitive.

@alan what are you saying, tony said nothing ‘about’ you but just asked you to look at the facts. They speak for themselves. Sometimes weighing up the reality against what we believed or just wanted to be true can be hard. Before my mother died, as a person with a strong faith she was deeply hurt and shaken by the unfolding truth behind the church she loved so much. It really broke her heart, especially the deceit. I felt very sorry for her loss but we could do nothing because it was the truth and she knew that.
Most people who follow the church must surely know what are facts and is smoke and mirrors.

@alan,
Semantics – aiming to take away from the facts.

Again, look at the facts and you will find that charisma for JPII does not disguise the fact that BXVI was only marginally better than him and is only perceived as such due to charisma.

also – commas are deserved around the word “better”

Eh sorry friend, tomy was being presumptuous in his thinking that i haven’t or im either incapable or disinterested in researching facts before i offer an opinion and vote up/down a comment.

Sorry to hear of your mother’s passing

Also @ William, I sympathise with you and your family’s experience. To me, religion is well illustrated as an iceberg. Love at the top and 90+ % of truth being incompatible with love below the surface.

I’m not trying to say that this is your view however I appreciate the acknowledgement of looking for the truth and wish you well on whatever your belief is since. So often we ignore the harm that religion does by wallpapering over with love but it’s not always enough.

@Tony all religions are the same the are all stories concocted by men to control others. RCC did this through fear mostly, and left deep scars in Irish society. If I want fairy stories I will look for one, and not at religious propaganda.
My mother is gone a while now, I feel sorry for the older generation who found shelter in the church only to discover that it is such a crime laden place, indeed an evil place.

William surely you meant that for @tomy

Oops yes I did, getting old…sorry

No matter William you speak with truth and conviction . You have my support . Keep up the good work .

Conor, if you watched any of his funeral, you would realise the huge impact he had in all parts of the world, among men of faith, and men without faith. He certainly was a major player in the bringing down of the iron curtain.
Your view of the church lessening on his watch is also incorrect. Secularism has led to decline in Europe, but the Catholic Church is growing speedily around the world.
In relation to the scandals, remember the 60′s and 70′s were the worst period in the church, and that was before his time. He was also responsible for putting Ratzinger in place, who has had the greatest positive effect in changing attitudes and regulations within the church on the abuse issues.

And so is exposed the misogynistic element of faith….

“men of faith”

Paddy out of curiosity why do you think the 60s and 70s were the worst period of the church?

Looking back at the progressive accomplishments of John XXIII and Paul VI I am wondering why you say that?

@ Conor Buggy
The cases of abuse show a pattern which emerged in the 60′s and 70′s. This appears to be the worst period, but it continued in the 80′s and had decreased substantially by the mid 90′s.
From my perspective, the flower power of the 60′s had its effect within the church. The growth of secularism in society also had its poisoning effect within the priesthood. As we know all institutions, not just the church, struggled with this societal problem, as demonstrated by Saville/BBC case recently.
The church is made up of sinners, in its own language, and that is true past, present, and in the future.

I grant that yes the paedophilia was indeed terrible in those decades. But reading into the church at that time, it appeared to be very optimistic about its future and had laid out a good path for itself through the provisions of Vatican II. To me it started losing its way and becoming more backward and less open to new ideas after Paul VI died and JPII took over and his ultra conservatism was continued by Benedict XVI.

. “This is a recent phenomena line ” is a lie perpetuated by the church. I profess to being neither judge nor jury but I do demand justice and a trial of all the RCC hierarchy are complicit in these most heinous of crimes. I won’t engage you anymore Paddy for your views are really not that relevant especially when you lack authority in the church. I will bow out of this debate
With one last link which may be of interest to other readers. http://www.ekklesia.co.uk/node/17980

Numbers of people are growing in countries were people are desperate and superstitious, like they once were here. Fear is the stick…it’s old hat. The greatest numbers coming from developing countries..’nuff said. Education and science are the great liberators not secularism, and this is an ever increasing trend every year, in a short period of time eventually people in the developing countries will shake of this oppressive church and simply live their lives as people.

The world will be a far more peaceful place when all these zealots are ignored. Life is for living and we will all be dead a long time…get busy living a good life.

@ William Ruane
This is an awful post William. Not only do you despise the church, but you believe yourself superior to others. When people rant like this it reminds me of the emergence of Antisemitism in Germany. Create the false accusations, stir up the hatred, classify them as stupid or superstitious, now you might have something going. Developing countries don’t count because they are not at my level of superior intellect.
Education and science are the great liberators you say, of course you mean without religion. So is science your religion? And sure you’d want control of what can be included in the education. Role on big brother.
P.S. I live a very good life thank you.

I didn’t call anyone stupid, and as for RCC growing numbers coming from developing countries well check the statistics Paddy, they will show that what I’m saying in true.
I’m superior now am I? well that’s just dandy I wasn’t aware of any rating system going on but if you say so…must be gospel.
Paddy have you noticed that if you keep calling something false it doesn’t make it false, I know it’s weird.
And the olde antisemitic card is a bit old hat in fairness.
By the way Hitler was a Christian…
It must be difficult being you is it? trying to thrust all these wrongs onto others. How is that working for you…

Sigh…

@Paddy – science is not a religion. The religious often jump on the idea that science is some kind of religion – it’s not. Religious often do the same with atheism – again, not a religion. Neither of them are even spiritual traditions much less religions.

It’s obvious what you believe – and this is where the incompatibility of science and religion is best illustrated.
Science moves on when theories are challenged – religion is dogmatic and resistant to change despite the truth staring them in the face.

Science does not require a suspension of disbelief – religion does.
You just have to look at the bible for that.

@ William Ruane
The growth in RCC has been everywhere, except in Europe.
The way you spoke about those converting to Christianity was awful. The church has always had a mission among the poor, but there has always also been a movement toward the RCC among the intelligentsia. Conversion is a natural process for those who read, ask questions, and have an open mind. There are huge numbers converting to Catholicism from other faiths.
Not only was Hitler a Christian but a catholic, and Catholics formed the second largest group in the camps, so like many who turn their back on the faith, he went against it with zeal.
I know my views and prognostications hold no weight with you, and I’m not so egotistical to believe my saying anything holds weight, or makes it true, but perhaps you are guilty of what you accuse me of. Your continued accusing of the popes, without evidence, a court case or the presumption of innocence, does not convict the popes or the church.

@Paddy. hmm was it awful the way I spoke about people converting to RCC ?, oh and was my post before that awful as well Paddy oh dear oh dear. The truth is … What should I do Paddy, maybe I should learn from a hypocrite and a bigot, is that the solution do you think?..you sound like a broken demented record and yes you do sound brainwashed.

I am finished here with this as it is like…in fact it’s like engaging with those Church of Later Day Saint lads calling to the door…it’s like talking to the wall. I see clearly where you are coming from..and I pity you.

Hopefully shortly there will be progress with the case being taken against Ratzinger to the International Criminal Court, Tony already posted the link but incase you missed it here it is, enjoy.

http://www.ekklesia.co.uk/node/17980

There is a really good book called. The Popes against the Jews: The Vaticans Role in the rise of Modern Anti-semetism . Written by David I.Kertzer. A distinguished historian . If people are interested in facts don’t listen to a non authority like Paddy . There’s enough evidence out there for everyone to find that exposes the RCC’s long history of corruption and oppression . Don’t leave it to amateurs like me or Paddy to educate about you about church history . It is wise to keep an open mind and look at both sides . Facts are better sought from such authors as mentioned above who have no axe to grind . Always beware of propaganda from both sides. Stick with the facts not the emotions .This is what I have done and it has served me well.

@ William Ruane
Sorry, I should have spelled it out for you, what is awful was the smugness of your educated ( probably catholic) castigating of the people of the third world. Your view that if they had more they wouldn’t be foolish enough to become catholic, the mighty talking to the lowly (you to them). I wonder which one of us is the more bigoted and brainwashed? Perhaps you should understand the terms better before you use them. Wishing you every success with your beliefs, or lack thereof, in the future.
As for the Pope, if he is not convicted will you be man enough to apologise for libelling him.
@ Tony Hegarty
As for the popes, Pious XII’s bedchamber in his holiday home was a maternity ward for twelve Jewish mothers. He has been praised for his efforts by Golda Meir among others. But the revisionists have been working hard.

http://bishopaccountability.org/

The author of the book I mentioned was invited by JPII to research the church’s involvement with hitler etc. He was given unprecedented access to Vatican files . Unfortunately for the RCC his findings were very controversial and not great for the RCC. His book wasn’t written to be anti catholic but just gave an impersonal balanced view based on church records of how church attitudes contributed to the holocaust. Beware though once read it might force you to look at the church in a less flattering light especially if your a devout Roman Catholic.

Sounds interesting Tony, must check it out…

William It’s not an easy read. I’d recommend reading the reviews on Web before committing to purchase
Brgds T.

Pat Kenny previewed ‘Mea Maxima Culpa’ on RTE 1 radio this morning. This new documentary throws light on many of the topics discussed above with direct testimonials and evidence of the abuse cover up, at the very highest levels. I know this sordid topic has been explored in this country before, I think that was only the tip of the iceberg. Particularly considering the entrenched views of some on this site praising the recent popes.

@ William Ruane
@ Tony Hegarty
As you are both aware, when you or I express our views, we have to be careful. I, as a Christian, see this as a war, in this case for souls, and the first casualty of war is usually the Truth. So I’m glad to see your questioning the authenticity of the comments about Benedict.
The attack on the popes, including the book you mentioned by Kertzer, amount to nothing more than historical revisionism. He has of course sold very well, as there is a large audience willing to feed on fallacy, if it suits their biases. It is however a very specialised area and the link below will help with information on this issue.
http://ptwf.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=115:investigati

William I have doubts about your source . Gary Krupps is an RCC propagandist and not an independent observer . Just because he claims the Jewish faith his loyalty clearly lies with Rome. It seems that Sometimes it suits to some to tell lies in order to preserve the peace.

Of course two can play your game Paddy http://www.catholicarrogance.org/Catholic/RC_scandal-2.html

@Tony, I’m not sure who this Gary Krupps is you refer to, I mentioned this documentary made by Alex Gibney, being screened this week in Dublin and selected cinemas around the country, it’s been on general release in the states since November, no mention anywhere about Gary Krupps. Read reviews of Mea Maxima Culpa, Silence in the House of God. I was sent a copy over the christmas, compelling and direct testimonies from a group of deaf boys abused in the early 1950’s, pre flower power lol, also compelling input from former priests, monks and people who ‘treated’ abusing priests, there ‘s a broad range of positive reviews on RottenTomatoes.

I’m certain I didn’t post a link to material from Gary Krupp.

Sorry William that was meant as a reponse to that numpty Paddy . I must be suffering from Alzheimer’s . Forgive me please

Tony, I think someone else posted a link to the activities of Gary Krupp, maybe one of the bigoted zealots contributing to the thread.

I would very much recommend Mea Maxima Culpa to everyone interested in this disturbing topic. Particularly those people who consider themselves open minded and who might have questions. Of course there are those who never question, and that is an unfortunate tragedy in itself.

No problem Tony…lol…

Thanks will check it out

Hopefully some few will get to see the motivations of William Ruane and Tony Hegarty here in this thread. Their zeal is purely hate for the Catholic Church and are motivated to cling onto anything that will further their cause. They called me many names along the way, but it was fun to watch them salivate at the prospect of Benedict being prosecuted, before they realised it was just another hate motivated lie. Below is another article on the pious the XII Jewish issue.
http://ptwf.org/images/pdf/news/NY_Post_OP_ED_12_09.pdf
What I’ll finish with, is just to say Christ offers peace, joy and hope; what is offered by the other side is just, well nothing.

I wouldn’t agree with your assertions – and in fact am quite insulted (as an atheist) that you suggest that “the other side” has nothing to offer. Making such a statement stinks of what other deists (like Gavin D’Costa & Cardinal Murphy-O’Connor) have stated: that atheists are “not fully human”. I don’t want to mention where we’ve heard this kind of language before but you know where such assertions lead.

In terms of attacking the Catholic church – it’s not just you Paddy, all churches deserve scrutiny. All organised religion has failed its followers – if you think the catholic church is above scrutiny then you have the blinkers on.

What you don’t seem to understand around this is that we’re talking about belief here – you can’t force it – you either believe or you don’t. And when people like yourself post and post and post in defence of an organisation which continues to do harm it doesn’t show an evangelical side at all – it shows little more than denial; a complete suspension of disbelief in the face of evidence and even honesty.

@ Tomy Iona
Well Tomy I believe in a life into infinity, and by definition as an atheist, you believe it all ends at death. To me that is nothing to offer.
If anyone said you are not fully human, and I doubt if Cardinal Murphy-O’Connor said that, then they are wrong. You are certainly as human as I am, and in my view destined to a life after death the same as me, whether you acknowledge it or not. It could of course be said that the atheists view of life, from a Christian perspective, is not fully human, as it denies our future and thus degrades humanity. This is completely different to calling you, or anyone, inhuman.
You say all religions have failed, well I disagree with you. Actually the -isms have failed a lot more dramatically, especially those who strove to rid the world of all religion.
I don’t believe anyone is above scrutiny, but I like evidence not just hate filled accusations.

funny sh*t alright

yep he reminds me of my Dad… (rip) when he was p****d off too !! ;)

Yes an incredible man. – thought the photo of him above meeting Ali Agca in prison was amazing. He was an inspiration

“Rock on Peter”!!

Thought the guy was a doorman? Religions funny.

Sssshhh.. stop spoiling the fun for mentioning his complicity in the cover-up of child rape.

To the die hard Fenians here yes it is more important to blow this mysoginistic homophobe who essentially turns a blind eye to institutional child abuse. Jimmy Savile deserves the same reverence.

Frightening to see the red thumbs on these comments. The kind of mentality that led to abuse being brushed under the carpet.

God loves still petr.

Change the record.

Change the record!? fk you – and ignore the ridiculous level of suffering that the church has denied and pretty much facilitated!?

When are people going to wake up. Calm as fking hindu cows….

The red thumbs tell me I’m posting in the right place!

The red thumbs are just for you petr. :)

Petr they give you red thumbs because the truth hurts and they want you to go away . They don’t want people like us exposing the sordid side of the RCC. But thumbs won’t win the day the truth will. Using a biblical analogy the corrupt hierarchy of the RCC are like Goliath , massive and powerful it’s victims are like David , we are but the rock in his sling.Keep up the good work Petr.

Cheers, Tony.

Declan — Yet another asinine comment from you. Now there’s a big word for you to look up!

Petr, should I remind you of some of your asinine comments on the journal? The ones that have generated dozens of red thumbs.

Petr apparently that’s not all they covered up http://www.catholicarrogance.org/Catholic/RC_scandal-2.html

Will pray for you keith god knows you need it.

Sean a lot of good prayers done my uncle while your clergy raped him as a child. Have a read of his book…… ‘Fear of The Collar’.

Lighten up you old grouch.

Agreed…